1998 3.8 to 350 (NOT LS1, but standard to 383) - Camaro Zone - Camaro Forums and News

Go Back   Camaro Zone - Camaro Forums and News > Camaro & Firebird Tech Forums > V6 Camaro and Firebird Tech

Join Camaro Zone Today
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 07-07-2013, 09:50 AM   #1
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1998 3.8 to 350 (NOT LS1, but standard to 383)

Oki, a few points before I get into this:

I'm an American in Europe. When you read my posts, bear this in mind. I have a Euro version 1998 Camaro. I am not bound by the limitations of the government EPA, Fed crap, Euro inspections or anything. I'm planning a build that will be my first fully independent build and I plan to have fun. So, if you have information on the following ideas I present here, or have some experience and appropriate advice to lend, I'd appreciate it.

Another point, you'll be reading that I want to use a carb type intake. Keep your Carb-biases to yourselves, please. I'm planning to either use an EFI fromEdelbrock, the E-Street system which will give my engine bay the classic look I want, or have a custom one-off top-mounted supercharger made for LPG applications. If you don't know anything about LPG, please don't comment. I've used it in a couple vehicles here, and it's pretty awesome with the right engines at higher compression.

My goal is to have a 4th gen shell with a 2nd gen system (sort of). Less electronics. As my uncle always said, "If it has tits, tires or electronics, it's gonna give you trouble." Well, I can deal with not having unnecessary electronics complicating my life. The other two are unfortunately needed.

Getting to it:

First, will the 305 or 350 (most desirably the 350) match up to my current trans and bell housing?

Using an Edelbrock EFI, my goal is to get a 350 block (four bolt mains, think 1978 GMC Sierra era) and use heads/pistons that will give a compression around 11-13:1 for LPG (Octane 104-112). This will be a daily driver. I want to have fun, as stated before, and don't have the restrictions of inspections here. So, anyone have some info or adice on decent pistons and heads that won't break the bank, but will give some decent power under LPG, and give the desired range of compression?

I plan to use MSD ignition systems, with Edelbrock EFI systems, and if that is about all I can use for electronics, I'd be happy. I don't want the ECU, all those cables and sensors and crap. If I can get away with a bare-bones electrical system like in 70's camaro, I'll be tickled.

I have a company that can make a custom Supercharger (I only like the top mount versions), and have considered using this on my current V6 (I plan to use this engine in a street or rat rod, using an older model Moskwicz or Warszawa). I was afraid that the block wouldn't be able to take a supercharger without cracking or something, but recently read that this gen camaro is a buick block. As I understand, buick 3.8 are made with superchargers and turbo in mind, and can work. Any knowledge on this?

I'll be using dual straight exhaust, no cats. So header advice is also appreciate.
__________________

__________________

Last edited by TGBoleyn; 07-07-2013 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Clarification
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:03 AM   #2
CZ's Turbo Gawd
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
94 T/A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Joelton TN
Posts: 7,045
Thanks: 89
Thanked 429 Times in 355 Posts
Garage
Welcome to the forum.

A few things I will point out. If your looking for all out strength a 2 bolt main block splayed to 4 bolt main is stronger than a factory 4 bolt main.

This may be my opinion but a carb style setup doesn't look at home in a 4th gen. Also if you went with a newer style LS series motor or a truck motor with a carb style intake you would have a much better setup to make power with. You could still run a distributor and carb intake.

Your going to have a bit of an issue fitting a classic roots supercharger in a 4th gen. You will have to cut the cowl and possibly the firewall. While LPG would be a cool way to go typically you don't run high compression with forced induction.

As for the Trans you didn't say if its auto or manual. If its a 5 speed don't waste time on it as it won't hold up behind a V8 for long. If its a automatic the bell housing is different between the V6 and V8 versions.

As for headers ceramic coated long tubes are the way to go. You may want to run a muffler though. Open/straight exhaust is loud, drones and gets old and annoying in a hurry.
__________________

__________________

-1994 Trans Am Gt: caged, CC503, Garrett GT45, 6Lbs, 3.73
-2011 Camaro SS convertible: SOLD

Last edited by 94 T/A; 07-07-2013 at 11:10 AM.
94 T/A is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #3
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks! I don't have the proper tools or garage space for anything that's not all ready to be assembled outta the box. So a conversion from 2 to 4 bolt isn't something I can do. I'll have to be using a block that's ready to build on without further bores or such mods.

I was looking at the older 350's because I don't want to mod the drive train or trans if I can avoid it. Not looking for a superbeast, just a bit of fun and some power. I had looked into building an LS1 using parts from Summit Racing's page including the Trick Flow top kit at 515 HP, a Scat rolling kit, etc. The money wasn't the issue so much as the fact that for the LS1 swap, I would have to get the drivetrain and trans replaced too. I thought that the 3.8 was a cut 305 and the 4.3 was a cut 350... but I don't know that for sure.

As for the induction vs high compression, will a higher compression engine with a basic Edelbrock EFI likely give me better gains than a forced induction at standard compression?

I'll go with a rebuilt V6 if necessary, but I love the 350 I rebuilt with my uncle, which was in my last pick up. So I kinda wanted to use a 350 if it's possible. Do you know how I'd have to modify or otherwise change the drivetrain or bellhousing from that which is stock for the 3.8?
__________________

Last edited by TGBoleyn; 07-07-2013 at 11:24 AM. Reason: misread
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:28 AM   #4
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 T/A View Post
Welcome to the forum.


As for the Trans you didn't say if its auto or manual. If its a 5 speed don't waste time on it as it won't hold up behind a V8 for long. If its a automatic the bell housing is different between the V6 and V8 versions.

It's an auto. In Poland, you can't afford to go with manual if you want to avoid accidents. They all use them here while talking on cells and texting. Craziness.
__________________
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #5
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
y87bird00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,008
Thanks: 38
Thanked 36 Times in 30 Posts
Garage
Honestly the easiest, cheapest, more powerful option is an LS swap. But if you are dead set on a 350 swap it would be unique and should fit your 'fun' requirement. Either way you are going to need to swap your transmission. You have a 4l60e which is run majorly using electronics. You would have to swap a v8 4l60e version with an ls swap (still using PCM and engine harness) or an older mechanical trans for a 350. That will require a new, custom driveshaft.
__________________
2000 Firebird/Formula/TransAm/Firehawk
5.3 ls6 cam, intake, longtubes, 2800 stall, shift kit
y87bird00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 12:01 PM   #6
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by y87bird00 View Post
You would have to swap ... an older mechanical trans for a 350. That will require a new, custom driveshaft.

You know where I can get such a custom driveshaft? Any brandname companies make these for after market?
__________________
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #7
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
y87bird00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,008
Thanks: 38
Thanked 36 Times in 30 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBoleyn View Post

You know where I can get such a custom driveshaft? Any brandname companies make these for after market?
There are many companies that can make custom driveshafts from your measurements. You might want to find a local one, if not search for the major companies online.
__________________
2000 Firebird/Formula/TransAm/Firehawk
5.3 ls6 cam, intake, longtubes, 2800 stall, shift kit
y87bird00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #8
Addicted Member
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Michaelrulaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DeBary, Florida, United States
Posts: 5,107
Thanks: 70
Thanked 128 Times in 109 Posts
I think your going to need an lt kmember to bolt the 350 to. A new tranny also. And you will need to cut the firewall and cowl.
__________________
Current Vehicles:
97 Camaro RS
85 Camaro IROC-Z
Kawasaki Ninja500
150cc Scooter


Quote:
Originally Posted by Camarojuana View Post
oh! And some tacky mother****er with a green 05 or 06 V6 Stang on some 22's" on the corner of my block. **** that dude.
Michaelrulaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 01:37 PM   #9
CZ's Turbo Gawd
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
94 T/A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Joelton TN
Posts: 7,045
Thanks: 89
Thanked 429 Times in 355 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelrulaz View Post
I think your going to need an lt kmember to bolt the 350 to. A new tranny also. And you will need to cut the firewall and cowl.
This.... If you have a distributor setup your going to have to cut/massage the firewall for it to fit.
__________________

-1994 Trans Am Gt: caged, CC503, Garrett GT45, 6Lbs, 3.73
-2011 Camaro SS convertible: SOLD
94 T/A is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 02:16 PM   #10
CZ's Audio Yoda
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Ercmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: River Valley
Posts: 9,034
Thanks: 39
Thanked 409 Times in 380 Posts
Garage
Would be better to do a carb'd LS motor swap, If you HAVE to have a carb'd motor.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1385738793.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	18954   Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1610986822.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	44.0 KB
ID:	18955  
__________________

2001 Camaro SS LS1
T56
"Concert Hall On Wheels"
"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"
http://www.camarozone.com/forum/f18/erics-01-ss-
mod-thread-178452/
http://www.camarozone.com/forum/f27/...m-poll-180546/

Last edited by Ercmann; 07-07-2013 at 02:21 PM.
Ercmann is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 03:27 PM   #11
Texas... F'k yeah
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Battousai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas F*ck Yeah!!!
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 18
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Battousai Send a message via Yahoo to Battousai
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it technically illegal in the first place to put an older motor in a newer vehicle? just letting you know...
__________________
Poor college kid trying to save for a g8, click sig for details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96firephoenix View Post
Battousai wins the "best explanation ever" award.
Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 03:29 PM   #12
CZ's Audio Yoda
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Ercmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: River Valley
Posts: 9,034
Thanks: 39
Thanked 409 Times in 380 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battousai View Post
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it technically illegal in the first place to put an older motor in a newer vehicle? just letting you know...
Yes, but he is in Poland
__________________

2001 Camaro SS LS1
T56
"Concert Hall On Wheels"
"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"
http://www.camarozone.com/forum/f18/erics-01-ss-
mod-thread-178452/
http://www.camarozone.com/forum/f27/...m-poll-180546/
Ercmann is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 03:31 PM   #13
Texas... F'k yeah
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Battousai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas F*ck Yeah!!!
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 18
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Battousai Send a message via Yahoo to Battousai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ercmann View Post
Yes, but he is in Poland
alright, ignore me...
__________________
Poor college kid trying to save for a g8, click sig for details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96firephoenix View Post
Battousai wins the "best explanation ever" award.
Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 05:03 PM   #14
Addicted Member
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Michaelrulaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DeBary, Florida, United States
Posts: 5,107
Thanks: 70
Thanked 128 Times in 109 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battousai View Post

alright, ignore me...
The epa doesn't make laws for other countries... so no
__________________
Current Vehicles:
97 Camaro RS
85 Camaro IROC-Z
Kawasaki Ninja500
150cc Scooter


Quote:
Originally Posted by Camarojuana View Post
oh! And some tacky mother****er with a green 05 or 06 V6 Stang on some 22's" on the corner of my block. **** that dude.
Michaelrulaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 06:57 PM   #15
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 T/A View Post
This.... If you have a distributor setup your going to have to cut/massage the firewall for it to fit.
Planning to use an MSD coil pack and ignition system.
__________________
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 06:58 PM   #16
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Loving the advantages of being outside the EPA for this one
__________________
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 08:02 AM   #17
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So, say I want to go with a high compression engine for LPG use. Would 13:1 be decent for 104 to 112 octane fuel?
__________________

__________________
TGBoleyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
76 350 to 383 questions 94Bird76motor 1st Gen & 2nd Gen (1967-81) Tech 5 05-19-2012 10:31 PM
1998 3.8 swap to 350 jonboyandwhitney V6 Camaro and Firebird Tech 9 03-23-2012 02:18 PM
1998 Ls1 pulley question, help Trans.Am98 4th Gen (1998-02) Camaro and Firebird Tech 8 12-13-2011 06:57 PM
For Sale 1998 LS 350 6 speed Formula 4SPEED Vehicle Classifieds 6 09-02-2011 10:49 AM
1998 2002 Camaro 530 BHP 530 lb-ft TQ 427 CID LS1 7.0L Disturbed Customs 4th Gen (1998-02) Camaro and Firebird Tech 0 05-29-2010 01:28 AM




Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:05 PM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright © CamaroZone.com

CamaroZone.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by General Motors or Chevrolet.

Camaro News Delivered to your Email!

Get the latest Camaro news straight to your inbox!

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]