454 Big block.. or 400 small block? You decide. - Camaro Zone - Camaro Forums and News

Go Back   Camaro Zone - Camaro Forums and News > Camaro & Firebird Tech Forums > 3rd Gen (1982-92) Camaro and Firebird Tech

Join Camaro Zone Today
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 01-15-2011, 07:44 PM   #1
Junior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MarineZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 71
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to MarineZ28
Talking 454 Big block.. or 400 small block? You decide.

Ok, So if you have looked at my posts, y'all know I have a built 400SBC currently backed by a 700r4 in my 87 Z28.

Well today I was looking for something on craigslist and stumbled across something that made me have to email the guy and get more information.

A BBC 454 mated to a th400, running, low miles, for $1500.

Now I've read all over the place if you can find one, the th400 is the tranny to have. Plus, I happen to have a buddy with a bunch of 454 stuff for the engine project he abandoned that I'm sure I can talk him into selling or trading for some of the random stuff I have.

So, basically, given the same options, a 400SBC with 700r4 (or th350) or buying a 454 with a th400, who would just stick with the 400? and who would get the 454? (Either way, I'm keeping the 400. I can find something to use it for.)

I've always wanted to do a big block project. So thats kinda my drive to do it.
__________________

__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan (1985)

You know you're driving a Camaro if your fuel gauge and your tachometer move at the same rate, in opposite directions.
MarineZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:43 PM   #2
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
floorit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,326
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Well...whats the car for? dragging? show? Thats what I'd make my choice off of. If its for dragging probably the big block and for show a big blocks impressive (especially with lots of chrome (; ) For like road racing Id stick with the small block so its not as nose heavy.
__________________

__________________
upcoming mods: TSP rumbler/cold air intake

after that mods: HPTuners FTW!

Future mods: LS1 please?
floorit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 10:18 PM   #3
Junior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MarineZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 71
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to MarineZ28
It's for street / strip. Show from time to time. However, most times when people drop in a big block its on a full tubular frame. Which I'm not doing.
My big debate, is that the small block is in the car and running, I'd have to start back at nothing if I drop in the big block.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan (1985)

You know you're driving a Camaro if your fuel gauge and your tachometer move at the same rate, in opposite directions.
MarineZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 11:47 PM   #4
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southborough, MA
Posts: 368
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So who can give the definitive explanation of a "small block" and a "big block"? I think you'ld be better off figuring out what your goal is. Fast quarter mile, high top speed, etc.
__________________
C U L8ER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 12:02 AM   #5
Texas... F'k yeah
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Battousai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas F*ck Yeah!!!
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 18
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Battousai Send a message via Yahoo to Battousai
If i was building a street/strip car, I would put a 427 LS3 in it. power, and gas mileage... somewhat lol
__________________
Poor college kid trying to save for a g8, click sig for details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96firephoenix View Post
Battousai wins the "best explanation ever" award.
Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 01:01 AM   #6
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
floorit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,326
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Big block is 450ci and up small block is anything below that
I agree with Battouasi though unless you're really going to need to put that much extra power down I'd really just stick with the small block its not like comparing a 350 and 454.

Ever consider a supercharger or anything?
__________________
upcoming mods: TSP rumbler/cold air intake

after that mods: HPTuners FTW!

Future mods: LS1 please?
floorit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 09:01 AM   #7
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southborough, MA
Posts: 368
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorit View Post
Big block is 450ci and up small block is anything below that
I agree with Battouasi though unless you're really going to need to put that much extra power down I'd really just stick with the small block its not like comparing a 350 and 454.

Ever consider a supercharger or anything?
The Pontiac 350, 400 and 455 are all the same size block.
__________________
C U L8ER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 04:48 PM   #8
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
branj70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 21
Thanked 53 Times in 43 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorit View Post
Big block is 450ci and up small block is anything below that
I agree with Battouasi though unless you're really going to need to put that much extra power down I'd really just stick with the small block its not like comparing a 350 and 454.

Ever consider a supercharger or anything?
Big Block is 396+

If you have the money and time, a BBC would be sick however good luck getting it to fit. They are MONSTER blocks alone without all the parts. I would honestly go with a 350 or 400 stroked or supercharged. You could easily make as much power as a big block up to about 500hp. Only thing is if you want over 500hp, then go BBC
__________________


2006 Pontiac GTO "Adelaide" 6.0 M6 K&N CAI, Magnapacks, !cats, tune, JHP Pro Billet short shifter, Holden emblem good for 20hp

"He who sticks his dick in peanut butter is ****ing nuts"


Last edited by branj70; 01-16-2011 at 04:51 PM.
branj70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 05:25 PM   #9
Junior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MarineZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 71
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to MarineZ28
I'm sticking with my 400 SBC. The guy I bought it off of finally found his parts list / blue print / dyno test for it.

The engine was built by my neighbor to full race specs from a shop in Canton, Ohio. (Racing Products)
Dyno when built (5 years ago) was 653.1 HP / 677 ft/lbs/tq. However it's supossed to be higher now because of some changes made. (Built to run on "high" octane (91 or 92) pump gas)

I have no problem believing these numbers, as I saw what the engine did to the car my neighbor had it in. (70's Nova, twisted the frame so bad the driver side tire sat a foot off the ground. that was with a boxed frame.) Also, the entire time I had it on the road before my transmission began to act up (Probably due to it being stock and the power the engine makes. But then again maybe not because I never hammered on the car (never above 4000 rpm) I had some severe traction issues on stock tires. I had to put my cheater slicks on it just to keep traction.

Once I get home I'll post all the engines exact specs on here.

For now I'll be starting a thread about what has been done to the car to date, with pictures that I do have. Once I get home more pictures will come. I'll be keeping a laptop in the garage just so I can update y'all as I go.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan (1985)

You know you're driving a Camaro if your fuel gauge and your tachometer move at the same rate, in opposite directions.
MarineZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 07:25 PM   #10
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
floorit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,326
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by branj70 View Post
Big Block is 396+
Actually from the research I just did its not actually relavent to displacement its just based off of the engine internals but I couldn't pinpoint exactly what and thatst on the manufacturer side.

for racing it depends on the sanctioning body and they usually go by displacement.
__________________
upcoming mods: TSP rumbler/cold air intake

after that mods: HPTuners FTW!

Future mods: LS1 please?
floorit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #11
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southborough, MA
Posts: 368
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorit View Post
Actually from the research I just did its not actually relavent to displacement its just based off of the engine internals but I couldn't pinpoint exactly what and thatst on the manufacturer side.

for racing it depends on the sanctioning body and they usually go by displacement.
Lol. That's basically what my research said. Big block vs small block is hotly debated. By the defs above I have a "small block" 400 which I am currently converting to a 400 stroker. My 400 is the same block as the 455. My 461 stroker should put out close to 500hp beating most 455's and higher. It's not as much displacement as it is horsepower; although, a larger block is easier to get more hp from. And then let's talk the rest of the drive train.
__________________
C U L8ER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 11:54 PM   #12
Texas... F'k yeah
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Battousai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas F*ck Yeah!!!
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 18
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Battousai Send a message via Yahoo to Battousai
I would say that a big block is dimensionally bigger than a small block, thats my definition, and i'm sticking to it lol
__________________
Poor college kid trying to save for a g8, click sig for details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96firephoenix View Post
Battousai wins the "best explanation ever" award.
Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 02:50 AM   #13
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
floorit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,326
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battousai View Post
I would say that a big block is dimensionally bigger than a small block, thats my definition, and i'm sticking to it lol
good enough for me lol
__________________
upcoming mods: TSP rumbler/cold air intake

after that mods: HPTuners FTW!

Future mods: LS1 please?
floorit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 08:31 AM   #14
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
branj70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 21
Thanked 53 Times in 43 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battousai View Post
I would say that a big block is dimensionally bigger than a small block, thats my definition, and i'm sticking to it lol
they are... by a ton. I had a 396 in my garage for rebuild and its huge
__________________


2006 Pontiac GTO "Adelaide" 6.0 M6 K&N CAI, Magnapacks, !cats, tune, JHP Pro Billet short shifter, Holden emblem good for 20hp

"He who sticks his dick in peanut butter is ****ing nuts"

branj70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 12:55 PM   #15
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
cammy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hinton, OK
Posts: 2,802
Thanks: 4
Thanked 49 Times in 41 Posts
Garage
400 sb water jackets are to small in my opinion. My father in law had one. Couldn't keep that damn thing cool
__________________
cammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:35 PM   #16
New Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
would stick with the 400sbc and just put more money into it. if you buy something else espically for 1500 would go with a ls1 or atleast somethin from lx series.. and would stick with 700r4 over th350 *overdrive*!
__________________
kcphil816 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 03:15 PM   #17
Addicted Member
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
96firephoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 6,390
Thanks: 55
Thanked 115 Times in 104 Posts
Send a message via AIM to 96firephoenix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battousai View Post
I would say that a big block is dimensionally bigger than a small block, thats my definition, and i'm sticking to it lol
ding ding ding! we have a winner.

the difference between an SBC (small block chevy) and a BBC (big block chevy) is that one block is bigger than the other block.

displacement is greatly independent of block dimensions. CID (cubic inches of displacement) varies with Stroke length, cylinder bore and head dimensions. you can increase or decrease an engine's displacement by modifying any one of those three. 396 BBC becomes a 454 BBC with new heads, bore and stroke. a 400 SBC becomes a 455 SBC with bore and stroke. a 400 SBC becomes a 454 BBC NEVER.

thus you can have a "small block" with a higher displacement than a "big block" for example, 400 SBC has higher CID than a 396 BBC.
__________________

A.J.
1996 Firebird 3800 Series II, T5 swap RIP 3-31-11
It lives on: Engine and trans from ^ are now in v
1996 Firebird 3800 Series II, T5
96firephoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 06:24 PM   #18
Junior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MarineZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 71
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to MarineZ28
The 400 CID SBC was only made as a Generation I SBC. The Mark IV and Gen VII are both BBC 400's. Then you have the Duramax Diesel 400.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan (1985)

You know you're driving a Camaro if your fuel gauge and your tachometer move at the same rate, in opposite directions.
MarineZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 07:29 PM   #19
Veteran Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
floorit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,326
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
all LS engines are small blocks and they go up to 454ci (LSX 454) but I assume were not talking about gen IV small blocks lol
__________________
upcoming mods: TSP rumbler/cold air intake

after that mods: HPTuners FTW!

Future mods: LS1 please?
floorit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 08:59 PM   #20
Texas... F'k yeah
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Battousai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas F*ck Yeah!!!
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 18
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Battousai Send a message via Yahoo to Battousai
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorit View Post
all LS engines are small blocks and they go up to 454ci (LSX 454) but I assume were not talking about gen IV small blocks lol
wrong, they go bigger
500 CI
__________________

__________________
Poor college kid trying to save for a g8, click sig for details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96firephoenix View Post
Battousai wins the "best explanation ever" award.

Last edited by Battousai; 01-20-2011 at 09:09 PM.
Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off





Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:18 PM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright © CamaroZone.com

Camaro News Delivered to your Email!

Get the latest Camaro news straight to your inbox!

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]