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Old 01-14-2013, 09:36 PM   #21
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Shit, you have a '70 Camaro? Sell all the other V8 Camaros and put your effort into the '70. I'd take a moderately nice '70-'73 in a heartbeat over the cleanest nicest fastest 93-97 Camaro I've ever seen. Also, why an LT1? Why not LS or BBC?
He's right, do the 1970. Why not bbc? Because in my opinion Camaros were built to handle more than other muscle cars. Small blocks are better for Camaros, big blocks are for GTO, Chevelles etc. it's just appropriate. Besides, a nicely built 383 can smoke a 454. But not that a Big Block is a bad idea either. An LS1? Sure, would be just as cool as an LT1 but more stock power. But the build would probably be a bit more costly.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by HotRoddCamaro View Post
He's right, do the 1970. Why not bbc? Because in my opinion Camaros were built to handle more than other muscle cars. Small blocks are better for Camaros, big blocks are for GTO, Chevelles etc. it's just appropriate.
Interesting that you feel that way. Maybe you should tell that to GM. The 396 Camaro SS is a legend as far as Camaros go. HowStuffWorks "1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS 396: A Profile of a Muscle Car"

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Besides, a nicely built 383 can smoke a 454. But not that a Big Block is a bad idea either.
A nicely built 454 will PULVERIZE a nicely built 383. Your logic fails.

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An LS1? Sure, would be just as cool as an LT1 but more stock power. But the build would probably be a bit more costly.
More initial cost but less cost in the long run. Three friends of mine have gone through so many optisparks that they can change them in 30 minutes now. Tuning shops are easier to find too. It doesn't have to be an LS1, it could be an LM7 or LQ4, both are from trucks and are commonly found for less than $1000 for a longblock and harness/PCM.

Last edited by ZexGX; 01-15-2013 at 10:45 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:48 AM   #23
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Interesting that you feel that way. Maybe you should tell that to GM. The 396 Camaro SS is a legend as far as Camaros go. HowStuffWorks "1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS 396: A Profile of a Muscle Car"

A nicely built 454 will PULVERIZE a nicely built 383. Your logic fails.

More initial cost but less cost in the long run. Three friends of mine have gone through so many optisparks that they can change them in 30 minutes now. Tuning shops are easier to find too. It doesn't have to be an LS1, it could be an LM7 or LQ4, both are from trucks and are commonly found for less than $1000 for a longblock and harness/PCM.
Big block camaro ftw. My fav engine is a 454
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oh! And some tacky mother****er with a green 05 or 06 V6 Stang on some 22's" on the corner of my block. **** that dude.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:39 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ZexGX View Post
Interesting that you feel that way. Maybe you should tell that to GM. The 396 Camaro SS is a legend as far as Camaros go. HowStuffWorks "1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS 396: A Profile of a Muscle Car"

A nicely built 454 will PULVERIZE a nicely built 383. Your logic fails.

More initial cost but less cost in the long run. Three friends of mine have gone through so many optisparks that they can change them in 30 minutes now. Tuning shops are easier to find too. It doesn't have to be an LS1, it could be an LM7 or LQ4, both are from trucks and are commonly found for less than $1000 for a longblock and harness/PCM.
Alright you win. Lol. And I meant a built 383 could beat a stock 454. Meaning you have the big block power with small block lightweight. And hey, my favorite Camaro is a 454 Baldwin-Motion. Actually it's a 1970 as well. Just saying personally I would go small block for my own build, and I don't blame him for wanting to do the same.

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:18 PM   #25
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Shit, you have a '70 Camaro? Sell all the other V8 Camaros and put your effort into the '70. I'd take a moderately nice '70-'73 in a heartbeat over the cleanest nicest fastest 93-97 Camaro I've ever seen. Also, why an LT1? Why not LS or BBC?

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He's right, do the 1970. Why not bbc? Because in my opinion Camaros were built to handle more than other muscle cars. Small blocks are better for Camaros, big blocks are for GTO, Chevelles etc. it's just appropriate. Besides, a nicely built 383 can smoke a 454. But not that a Big Block is a bad idea either. An LS1? Sure, would be just as cool as an LT1 but more stock power. But the build would probably be a bit more costly.
I would consider an LT1 because I have everything to do one right now, a complete low mileage engine, computer, harness, transmission, fuel pump, mounts. It is not my preferred choice, I HATE OPTI SPARK, but to get a complete LS1 drive train is going to cost me $2500 to $5000 for a running car with 100k on it so I could have a complete drive train and part out the car to help cover costs. I can do a LT1 with roughly 400 horsepower for $2400. An LS1 will give me roughly 330 hp after bolt ons for the same amount. A Blueprint 383 Stroker 405 Hp is $3300 base. BBC are going like $4400 and up! I suppose I could find a used BBC, but whats that going to run me? Not my expertise nor have I ever really looked into it. I have watched my dads little 302 smoke BBC and that engine wasn't crazy built. Always had SBC in the family I guess.

I would like a LT1 or LS1 for the serpentine drive belt set up too, plus i have all the computer stuff to diagnose them, spare parts, reliability and I think cheaper cost. I don't know much about carbs & my father doesn't want to teach me anything. Just tells me to stick with electronics.

I haven't been working crazy on my 70 because everything thats a decent part for it costs me crazy money. Every panel had been hit on that car at some part. I just bought a pair of fenders, hood, O.e. rear quarter skins (that I can't use for the rust bits) and lenses and things for $900. The fenders are worth it since they are original equipment and in nice shape. So I fix a couple 93-97 since they can be had for $1000 needing help, sell them and make a few hundred to buy more parts for the 70. I already have $10,000 in the 70 between buying it for $5000 shipped from Arizona to Rochester NY, plus all new seats, rugs, insulation, door skins, fuel system, door hinges, handles, body materials, window trim, 150mph z28 gauge cluster, clutch pedals. I am figuring I will probably have $20000 into the car when I am done, it will be nice and like a new car, but it will be $20000 ... So if i can save on a drivetrain by keeping one from a car parting out, why not?

Oh, that factory correct 12 bolt with 4.11's that put me back $1500 for that. I just can not skimp on this 70 Camaro.

And yes, I know I could buy a 70 Camaro for the amount I've already divulged into it, to bad I didn't know that at that the time I bought it for a project with my dad which has turned into my whole project. The only project part was getting it off the trailer. In which my dad said, you bought a nice look'n car (until we found the body filler everywhere), best of luck to you! He then patted me on the shoulder and left.

If i could take my 70 Camaro to the track and DD everyday I would be a happy guy. We are talking months out though, probably even past this summer. Thus why if I could take another car and track it now, it would be ideal while this sits.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:40 PM   #26
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Why the HATE for opti? if you don't like the distributor on the front use coil packs.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cferrel4 View Post
I can do a LT1 with roughly 400 horsepower for $2400. An LS1 will give me roughly 330 hp after bolt ons for the same amount.
This is wrong on so many levels. First of all, stock for stock the LS1 provides more HP and its lighter. From my understand of the aftermarket parts, LS1s have more parts for cheaper. LT1s are older so they tend to have more problems and also there more expensive, and harder to tune. LT1 vs LS1 with the same bolt ons, the LS will be way better.



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A Blueprint 383 Stroker 405 Hp is $3300 base. BBC are going like $4400 and up! I suppose I could find a used BBC, but whats that going to run me? Not my expertise nor have I ever really looked into it. I have watched my dads little 302 smoke BBC and that engine wasn't crazy built. Always had SBC in the family I guess.
A pre-made engine will always be more expensive then building it yourself. I would reccommend building it yourself anyways because you need to know how to rebuild if its a drag car. Also i can get a full 454 from a junkyard for 900 with a tranny. Then i could rebuild it and shit for another 1500 and have an easily better engine.

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I would like a LT1 or LS1 for the serpentine drive belt set up too, plus i have all the computer stuff to diagnose them, spare parts, reliability and I think cheaper cost. I don't know much about carbs & my father doesn't want to teach me anything. Just tells me to stick with electronics.
You can learn or you can make it fuel injected... anything can be a serpentine drive system.

I haven't been working crazy on my 70 because everything thats a decent part for it costs me crazy money. Every panel had been hit on that car at some part. I just bought a pair of fenders, hood, O.e. rear quarter skins (that I can't use for the rust bits) and lenses and things for $900. The fenders are worth it since they are original equipment and in nice shape. So I fix a couple 93-97 since they can be had for $1000 needing help, sell them and make a few hundred to buy more parts for the 70. I already have $10,000 in the 70 between buying it for $5000 shipped from Arizona to Rochester NY, plus all new seats, rugs, insulation, door skins, fuel system, door hinges, handles, body materials, window trim, 150mph z28 gauge cluster, clutch pedals. I am figuring I will probably have $20000 into the car when I am done, it will be nice and like a new car, but it will be $20000 ... So if i can save on a drivetrain by keeping one from a car parting out, why not?

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Oh, that factory correct 12 bolt with 4.11's that put me back $1500 for that. I just can not skimp on this 70 Camaro.
A 12 bolt is only a little better than the 10bolt. You just wasted 1500.00 dollars because the only good thing is a ford 9"

Also you can fix that car up and do everything for about 10grand. I dont know where you buy your parts/cars but it seems like you have a problem getting ripped off. Ive seen builds on tv cost less than that and they were pretty badass. I wanna see what Zex has to say...
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:35 PM   #28
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This is wrong on so many levels. First of all, stock for stock the LS1 provides more HP and its lighter. From my understand of the aftermarket parts, LS1s have more parts for cheaper. LT1s are older so they tend to have more problems and also there more expensive, and harder to tune. LT1 vs LS1 with the same bolt ons, the LS will be way better.
Just because one is older does not exactly mean it will have more problems. Im not sure what makes you think LT1s are more expensive LS1s are the more costly of the two. There's not much of a difference in the tuning between LT1s and LS1s both can be tuned with a MAF sensor or in SD mode.
Aside from that OP is talking about over all cost from his position its better to build an LT since he has one. There are plenty of parts available for the LT priced the same or in some cases less than LS parts.

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You can learn or you can make it fuel injected... anything can be a serpentine drive system.
making a carb motor fuel injected isnt cost effective those aftermarket conversion setups cost out the ***.

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A 12 bolt is only a little better than the 10bolt. You just wasted 1500.00 dollars because the only good thing is a ford 9"
LOL wut? A 12 bolt is a lot better than a 10 bolt, There are plenty of people out there (I know some personally) that make 500+ WHP and beat the shit out of 12 bolts and have had no problems, and there are plenty of other good rear ends than a 9" ford.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:41 PM   #29
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making a carb motor fuel injected isnt cost effective those aftermarket conversion setups cost out the ***.
I think he meant keeping the fuel injected LT1 rather than doing a big block carbed motor.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Michaelrulaz View Post
This is wrong on so many levels. First of all, stock for stock the LS1 provides more HP and its lighter. From my understand of the aftermarket parts, LS1s have more parts for cheaper. LT1s are older so they tend to have more problems and also there more expensive, and harder to tune. LT1 vs LS1 with the same bolt ons, the LS will be way better.

A pre-made engine will always be more expensive then building it yourself. I would reccommend building it yourself anyways because you need to know how to rebuild if its a drag car. Also i can get a full 454 from a junkyard for 900 with a tranny. Then i could rebuild it and shit for another 1500 and have an easily better engine.

You can learn or you can make it fuel injected... anything can be a serpentine drive system.

A 12 bolt is only a little better than the 10bolt. You just wasted 1500.00 dollars because the only good thing is a ford 9"

Also you can fix that car up and do everything for about 10grand. I dont know where you buy your parts/cars but it seems like you have a problem getting ripped off. Ive seen builds on tv cost less than that and they were pretty badass. I wanna see what Zex has to say...
An LS does have more options and performance parts available to it, but in my situation with 2 Spare LT1's right now with NO COST in them, it is cheaper for me to use them, have them ported, bigger valves etc. Plus I bought a complete 355 LT1 shortblock for $750 with 50 miles on it, I can't beat the cost for it. When I started pricing out engine builds, it can be cheaper/just as efficent to buy a premade one with a 50,000 mile warranty than to build it.

Optis always shit the bed at the wrong time for me, thus the hate, but I have them down to changing them in a hour and a half.

You are right, I could learn how to do the carb stuff; however, when I fix day in and day out electronic, its going.

To buy a serpentine set up for an older car is like $800 from summit or jegs, why spend the money when an LT1/LS1 already come with it?

A 12 Bolt will always traditionally hold up better than a 10 bolt, I think almost everyone here will agree. You would probably shit yourself on the offers I've had for it that are more than I paid for it from people coming to buy other things and see it sitting there.

I want this car to have O.E. parts on it & nill body filler. I've already had my fair share of O.E.R. that doesn't want to fit right, thus why I searched for OE fenders. One day I'll have the money for the correct date coded engine for it. As for now, I'm buying mostly all OE and things with the right dates on them too. I can't do everything myself and don't have the time to learn everything myself. Its worth it to me to pay someone to do some things that I can't do/don't have the tools for and its more worth my time to so I can keep doing something else to bring more money in.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:18 AM   #31
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Optis always shit the bed at the wrong time for me, thus the hate, but I have them down to changing them in a hour and a half.
Shoot can i call you next time mine goes out? It took me a hell of a lot longer than that to do mine
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:16 AM   #32
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After a few interesting phone calls, I got a complete running car

After a few interesting phone calls from people who knew I was looking for an engine that got a hold of other people that had engines, cars, transmission I ended up with a route that I want to.

First off, I am going to sell the red Z28 Convertible in the spring (hopefully get $5000). Secondly, I have just finished parting out the 95 Z28 T56 Hardtop car that was to rusty for me. Here are some pictures of it before and after we took it apart. Within the first 2 weeks I have made $475 back from parts and I still have the T-56 swap components that I imagine I can get a $1000 for. I have $1200 into it so I should break even and get a return pretty soon. This money I will be putting towards the 70 Camaro...




I ended up buying a complete running 94 Z28 Hardtop for $4200. The engine has 50 miles on it. 350 LT1, Wiseco Pro Tru forged pistons, Scat Pro Comp I-Beam forged rods, polished journals on stock crank, 190cc advanced induction cylinder heads, advanced induction cam 226/234, comp cams beehive springs, chromoly pushrods, 1.6 comp cams ultra pro-mag rocker arms, comp cam lifters, Cloyes tru roller timing chain, electric water pump, Trick flow 58mm elbow and intake ported to 58mm, Moroso Cold Air intake, 255L/Hr fuel pump & racetronix 38 lb injectors, MSD ignition, pace setter headers & y pipe, hooker cat back exhaust. It came with 2 transmission, 1 stock with a B&M shift kit & 3000 Yank stall, the other a build FLT Level 3 with upgraded clutches, red lined band, corvette servo, solenoids, calibrated valvebody etc. I don't really feel like typing up everything on the FLT transmission.

The rear end is a 3.73 motive gears, thunder racing diff cover & alloy USA high-strength axles with new bearings and seals. Also has 50 miles on it.

The suspension is a UMI package of strut tower brace, rear lower arms, non adjustable panhard bar and torque arm and subframe connectors.


The body is half in primer and will need to be painted, but I figured for the all the mods the Camaro came with, with the new engine, I couldn't build it for $4200 delievered to my door.

My plan is next week to get my 95 Z28 with 63k miles going so I can paint in the spring and sell it. I have also sent my doors from my 70 Camaro out to get the new skins welded onto them, hopefully I will have them. I will sell the 63k mile Camaro in the spring for hopefully $4k-$5,000. Over the summer I will put the 70 Camaro together and in the meantime race this 94 Z28. Then once the 70 Camaro is ready for the engine, I will transfer the engine from the 94 to the 70 & part out the 94 to get something back on my initial investment. So that is the direction I am going to go with this project/route to reach my goals.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:01 PM   #33
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Pictures of the 1970 Camaro

I figured I should throw up the before and where I am at now pictures with the 1970 Camaro since this thread will now revolve around building that Camaro and what ever other Camaro/Firebird I am currently working on.

Here are some pictures of how it looked when I got the Car 4 years ago.



Here is where I am at with it right now.


Unfortunately the doors were totally made out of bondo and had been wrecked both sides. I have sent the doors with new skins to get welded on to the body shop since I am a terrible welder. The only thing that wasn't crashed into was the roof from a roll over. The car does have the original quarter panels/floors/trunk.

Well now that this is out there, I guess I'll be taking pictures and updating on it when I am working on it for everyone.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:43 PM   #34
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Got a bit of time in today on the 1970

Figured I would do a quick update. Managed to get the fenders, hood hinges and a couple of other bits of the 70 today. Also picked up a NOS front upper nose and lower panel for $120 already primered.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:13 PM   #35
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Got another hour in.

Put another hour of time into the 70 Camaro tonight. Got the inner fenders off, upper window trim, the interior sail panels.


I am also going to need to get a new battery tray due to this one being... well ... yea.


I imagine next week I will begin getting back onto the 93 to 02 F Bodies. Have a convertible coming that will be parted out for that extra cash and I need to get cranking on my 95 Camaro Z28 with 63k miles. That needs the upper dash panel put in, passenger window motor, and the body dissassembled, sanded, and ready for paint by the spring/once the warm weather comes.

I can hopefully strip the door jams next week and my new/used front fenders for the 70 Camaro though. Eventually it will all come together.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #36
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Got a little more time today to work on the toys after I changed the girlfriends oil in her Malibu.

I had a spare black tail panel so I installed it on my red Camaro to see if I like the Berger look. Not totally sold on it with the red, I think I prefer the berger mod on a light color, like white, silver, blue and green.

Also got to stripping my new lower valance panel on the 70.


Has anyone tried the aircraft paint stripper chemical... getting kinda lazy and tired of sanding everything off... Just wondering how easy it is to work with?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:28 AM   #37
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Has anyone tried the aircraft paint stripper chemical... getting kinda lazy and tired of sanding everything off... Just wondering how easy it is to work with?
Very easy, but also very caustic. Get the brush-on kind. Paint should just bubble up and slide/scrape off easily. Be sure to wear a respirator, gloves, and eye protection.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:56 PM   #38
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Did some work last night on both the 70 and the 95 Z28 63k mile car. I also just took a deposit for the Red Convertible, so it will be sold.

I am halfway through changing the passenger window regulator assembly on the 95 Z28, got the dash pad changed over to one that isn't cracked a ton.

I bought a gallon of the aircraft paint stripper $41.82. I used it on my fenders last night, did a great job for most of the layers of paint, need to put another coat of it on.



Still going to need to sand them down a bit, but a lot less time sanding and less sand paper being used. Going to do some more tonight hopefully.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:51 PM   #39
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Did some work tonight for a couple hours and also earlier in the week.

Earlier in the week I acquired a 94 z28 convertible for free, just had to help the guy take his drive train out and provide a spot to do it. I have parted the car out now, so now just looking to sell parts for some extra cash to put towards the 70. I did acquire a F-Body 12 bolt strange rear end with 3.42 gears. Here are some pictures of what is left:


Other than that I have been continuing to strip my fenders and the front lower valance panel. I am almost done with them, the air craft paint stripper works well.

Anyway this post can be renamed "My 70 Camaro Project?"
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:10 AM   #40
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Anyway this post can be renamed "My 70 Camaro Project?"
Yes it can, and done
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