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Old 04-01-2014, 06:31 PM   #1
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rebuilding 4l60e

looking at two strong contenders to do my trans, i dont kow anything about trans so i want to show the build sheets and see what you guys think.

first sheet
Transbuilderguy transmissions

4l60e master overhaul kit - basic overhaul kit contaiing all seals steels and frictions, bearing and washer kit, beast sunshell - heavy duty design for stronger reverse 2nd and 4th gear, new reverse drum - new drum for larger wide band, carbon fiber wide 2-4 band, hd input sprag - double cage design replaces stock factory unit, superior products shift kit with boost valve, 4l65 e low roler clutch - wider design for more holding in 1st gear, hd 2-3 shift valve - allows the overrun clutch to apply in D3 range supporting input sprag, sleeved input drum - strengthens the input drum in the common breakage area of input shaft, aluminum accumulator pistons - replaces the factory plastic units that are prone to breakage

second sheet is on this link
http://cahallperformancetrans.com/uploads/Pro_Race.jpg

is there a big difference on the builds? i was told both builds will handle up to 500hp which is a good place for me....what do you guys think? what kinda of torq converter should i run?

one big thing i guess is one guy i get one year warranty and the other 2 years.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:06 PM   #2
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Neither kit is perfect. A match between the two would be ideal actually.

The frictions you want in your 3-4 clutch pack are the Borg Warner Hi Energies. Just because it's a Borg Warner doesn't mean it's a Hi Energy clutch. Much better material than the tans. It started in the 4L65Es.

The fact that Cahall is offering two billet servos is a good deal, and I especially like the Sonnax 4th servo, but not a fan of the Fairbanks second. If anything, for the simple fact that the servos are best left consistent brand-wise.

Cahall has the Sonnax wide rear sun gear bushing, the 1st option doesn't. I would insist they include it, it's only like $5 more.

Neither of those sunshells are the best. The Beast is decent, don't get me wrong, but the better option is the Sonnax Smartshell, for a small additional fee. Better load thrust distribution on the captured bearing in the planetary. It's also lighter, and is rollerized.

A boost valve is 100% necessary. One uses Superior's boost valve and the other TransGo. Personally, I think Sonnax is the best and wouldn't use anyone else.

The carbon band the 1st option listed is better than the Alto red band listed by Cahall. Although it kind of irks me they say carbon fiber because it's not ****ing carbon fiber.

Both have the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which is good. Both have 4L65E low roller which is good.

Transbuilderguy offers a new reverse input drum, Ask if it's an OEM A/C Delco unit and not a copy. There IS a difference, I don't care what they may tell you. However, at least they are offering one in their package whereas Cahall does not. A new reverse input drum should always be used with a new band, especially if upgrading to a wide band.

The hardened pump rings are a nice touch Cahall has over Transbuilderguy.

Save this post for reference and call both companies and talk to them about it. $20 says they will dance around it, but maybe not. I'm sure if you mention wanting to upgrade to a Sonnax SmartShell, at least one, if not both would entertain the idea and admit that would be smart. Ask them to update

Both of those kits have benefits and potential drawbacks the other doesn't have, so it's really impossible to say which one is objectively better.

And obviously you should run one of my torque converters
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:06 PM   #3
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:27 PM   #4
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I get a notification when my name is used on the web so I figured I would comment on this post. To the op you are smart for doing your homework if more people did places like monster and maddog wouldn't be able to give all bad names. you cannot go wrong with Frank either he has a excellent reputation.
As far as the build I mapped out things can be changed however the part I mapped out are what you need to support your goals. the corvette servo with the wide band is more than capabale of handling 500hp. However we can waste money with larger servos I persoannly like the Fairbanks servo as it eliminates the third accumulator you just have to run the 1-2 accumulator stock and I drill the feed large. As far as the sonnax shell I havnt bought into it yet not that its a bad part but I have never had a beast sunshell break when something works for you you kinda stick with it. My 3-4 pack does come with the borg warner high energy 9 clutch setup. and yes the reverse drum is a gm piece. A new drum has to be used with the wide band or it will not evenly apply the band causing it to burn on the edges.
In your build I didn't quote things like servos that I don't feel you need and use the money to build the trans in the areas that you do need as in the sleeved input drum which also has to use the billet forward piston the stock casting piston will crack from the pressure fluctuations in the 60e pressure control. this unit was built to your budget however I can build anything you want or feel you need it just takes money that's all.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:31 PM   #5
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnIpEr View Post
Neither kit is perfect. A match between the two would be ideal actually.

The frictions you want in your 3-4 clutch pack are the Borg Warner Hi Energies. Just because it's a Borg Warner doesn't mean it's a Hi Energy clutch. Much better material than the tans. It started in the 4L65Es.

The fact that Cahall is offering two billet servos is a good deal, and I especially like the Sonnax 4th servo, but not a fan of the Fairbanks second. If anything, for the simple fact that the servos are best left consistent brand-wise.

Cahall has the Sonnax wide rear sun gear bushing, the 1st option doesn't. I would insist they include it, it's only like $5 more.

Neither of those sunshells are the best. The Beast is decent, don't get me wrong, but the better option is the Sonnax Smartshell, for a small additional fee. Better load thrust distribution on the captured bearing in the planetary. It's also lighter, and is rollerized.

A boost valve is 100% necessary. One uses Superior's boost valve and the other TransGo. Personally, I think Sonnax is the best and wouldn't use anyone else.

The carbon band the 1st option listed is better than the Alto red band listed by Cahall. Although it kind of irks me they say carbon fiber because it's not ****ing carbon fiber.

Both have the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve which is good. Both have 4L65E low roller which is good.

Transbuilderguy offers a new reverse input drum, Ask if it's an OEM A/C Delco unit and not a copy. There IS a difference, I don't care what they may tell you. However, at least they are offering one in their package whereas Cahall does not. A new reverse input drum should always be used with a new band, especially if upgrading to a wide band.

The hardened pump rings are a nice touch Cahall has over Transbuilderguy.

Save this post for reference and call both companies and talk to them about it. $20 says they will dance around it, but maybe not. I'm sure if you mention wanting to upgrade to a Sonnax SmartShell, at least one, if not both would entertain the idea and admit that would be smart. Ask them to update

Both of those kits have benefits and potential drawbacks the other doesn't have, so it's really impossible to say which one is objectively better.

And obviously you should run one of my torque converters
I do run the wide sungear bushing in my units also I just don't feel its necessary to itemize 5.00 parts lol. as far as shells I just havnt bought into the sonnax shell when you have something that works for you you don't fix it if it isn't broken in the last 10yrs never had a beast break and that's in 800hp vettes. I do plan on using the sonnax shell however I want to test it in my own stuff before I send units out with it I just don't like the fact its a stock shell modified I like the beefy design of the beast.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Transbuilderguy View Post
I do run the wide sungear bushing in my units also I just don't feel its necessary to itemize 5.00 parts lol. as far as shells I just havnt bought into the sonnax shell when you have something that works for you you don't fix it if it isn't broken in the last 10yrs never had a beast break and that's in 800hp vettes. I do plan on using the sonnax shell however I want to test it in my own stuff before I send units out with it I just don't like the fact its a stock shell modified I like the beefy design of the beast.
Aw man I feel like a dick for my post, it didn't even click to me at the time Transbuilderguy was a member on here

I know he hasn't logged in in almost 5 months, but I wanted to add that The Beast is not a BAD part at all. I have it in my own 4L60E. The only rebuttal I have is that the beast has extra meat where it's not really needed, increasing the weight. The strength is really necessary in the collar area. The rest of the shell definitely matters to an extent, and I wasn't a fan of the balance holes Sonnax used to have on the SmartShell when it first came out, but I'm pretty sure they use the later revised sunshell from that went through a very nice factory heat treating process. Some of those stock later model shells have been used in a few 9 second cars, though none that I've built (I've only used a stock late model shell once, and it was for a stock application).

He is right though about wasting money on the servos. I do like the addition of a Sonnax billet 4th at above 500hp, but the 2nd is very unnecessary for most people.

I'll send him a PM, would be nice to have another transmission guy on here from time to time.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnIpEr View Post
Aw man I feel like a dick for my post, it didn't even click to me at the time Transbuilderguy was a member on here

I know he hasn't logged in in almost 5 months, but I wanted to add that The Beast is not a BAD part at all. I have it in my own 4L60E. The only rebuttal I have is that the beast has extra meat where it's not really needed, increasing the weight. The strength is really necessary in the collar area. The rest of the shell definitely matters to an extent, and I wasn't a fan of the balance holes Sonnax used to have on the SmartShell when it first came out, but I'm pretty sure they use the later revised sunshell from that went through a very nice factory heat treating process. Some of those stock later model shells have been used in a few 9 second cars, though none that I've built (I've only used a stock late model shell once, and it was for a stock application).

He is right though about wasting money on the servos. I do like the addition of a Sonnax billet 4th at above 500hp, but the 2nd is very unnecessary for most people.

I'll send him a PM, would be nice to have another transmission guy on here from time to time.

I didn't think it was insulting to him what you posted. I found this thread very informative, so thank you guys for sharing a little knowledge.


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Old 12-08-2014, 08:24 PM   #9
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This is so funny that this just got bumped, wow.

I just dealt with a very nasty public case about our company on 3 different Facebook groups for our first and only warranty.

Frank Cahall, the owner of Cahall Performance linked in the first post, stepped in and defended us and now I'm messaging him on Facebook BS'ing about transmissions. He's a good dude.

Small world.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:26 AM   #10
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I wasn't offended lol we all have our ways of getting the job done take a look at my customers group on fb https://www.facebook.com/groups/1467725086801418/
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