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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay so I've had my car for about a year now and I think it's about time I start doing some upgrading to it in the performance department. The only problem is, I don't have a ton of money. I'm capable of saving up for reasonable purchases, but I just wanna get some suggestions of what I should do, since I know pretty much nothing. I think I want a CAI, but is that better than a Ram Air or a Short Ram? And if I do get a CAI, is it worth paying more for the big brands such as K&N or are the cheap ones on e-bay worth it? I was also looking at the SLP induction package, but I'm not sure if it'd fit on my car, and if the air box lid that I would want with it would either. My car is a 1999 V6 3800 series Camaro, stock except a Flowmaster muffler. I'd appreciate any help in making some decisions :D
 

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Welcome! Any upgrades on the intake/exhaust are great starting points on any engine. CAI would be the better choice, where as Ram Air doesn't really take effect until high speed applications. SLP makes a nice kit, you really just want to get as less restrictive filter as you can. Keep the MAF screen in the intake, don't take it out like a lot of people like to do. Upgrade to some headers, long tube if you can get your hands on any, and have it tuned. You can install some aftermarket gears in the rear end, which will give you one of the most bangs for the buck because you can get some really great acceleration, without having to do a bunch of engine work. You will sacrifice some gas mileage doing this though. Get a nice tune from a engine tuner and that will give you some decent improvements.
 

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welcome

I would scan ebay for a whisper lid, you can make SLP lid work. You need some kinda of hose to make the bend from the lid to your TB. Once you have that done, save up for exhaust. Headers, hi-flow cat, and a complete cat back. I chose for a complete 3" setup, I love it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
AwsmGy,

I feel like a complete moron even asking this. But I'm gathering that a whisper lid is the same as a ram air? Or at least it does the same job?
 

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AwsmGy,

I feel like a complete moron even asking this. But I'm gathering that a whisper lid is the same as a ram air? Or at least it does the same job?
Essentially, yes. I got one a few months ago and there was a fairly notable gain, I highly recommend one!
 

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Call me... MR. SnIpEz
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Well actually Ram Air and CAI aren't the same thing, but same concept. More Air into the engine = more power. CAI make the air going in through the lid colder, and cold air is denser and blah blah blah leads to more power. Ram Air kicks in at high speeds and is usually located somewhere around your radiator area IIRC, and literally Rams Air into your engine :]

The best headers for v6's would be Pacesetter short tubes. You can get long tube headers, BUT they're pretty rare for a v6 to have. They offer gains of 60 HP though, which is insane!!! They're also like $700 including shipping :\ Pacesetters come in two kinds. Painted and Armor Coated. They're the same pieces of hardware but the painted is painted black and the armor coated one is coated with a special material to help the metal withstand higher engine temperatures and prevent rust. Painted you can get for $200 + shipping from Matt at cincyperformance.com he's a member on this website, so ask him about it. His username is [email protected] The best high flow cat you can get is Magnaflow aka Car Sound. They have high flow cats for $50-$70ish dollars. A good investment and I will be purchasing one myself shortly.

And as for a catback, this doesn't really help you in performance much, maybe 2-5 hp, but it does dramatically help with sound. There's no better one than another, but for sound, I recommend Magnaflow.
 

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Yes, that's another question, do you have emissions testing in your state?
 

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dyno#'s

where to buy LT's F-Body - Available now***** 7 sets of Long tubes***** - FullThrottleV6.com -- The V6 Tech Source

Detailed Dyno Results:
All tests were conducted on a completely stock vehicle with nothing forward of the exhaust system changing between tests. No tuning was conducted, and fuel trims were reset before driving to the dyno shop. The tests were accomplished on a Dynojet dyno, with the same operator handling all pulls. Due to the speed limiter still being enabled, all but the first pull were done in 3rd gear. We were unable to get a clean RPM signal for TQ readings on the stock pulls.

Stock (SAE Correction 1.03)
Details: 2000 Camaro, M5 w/no modifications down to the paper air filter
- Run 1: 169.15HP, 80.16* F, 29.09 in-Hg, 55% Humidity (4th gear)
- Run 2: 166.92HP, 81.15* F, 29.09 in-Hg, 54% Humidity
- Run 3: 167.55HP, 81.83* F, 29.10 in-Hg, 51% Humidity

Longtubes (SAE Correction 0.99)
LTs w/no catalytic converter (Dan's setup) and the 13secV6 catback
- Run 1: 183.94HP/201.61TQ, 63.67* F, 29.25 in-Hg, 43% Humidity
- Run 2: 183.89HP/202.30TQ, 63.21* F, 29.25 in-Hg, 42% Humidity
- Run 3: 184.05HP/203.04TQ, 62.82* F, 29.26 in-Hg, 42% Humidity

Pacesetters (SAE Correction 1.00)
Pacesetters w/catalytic converter and the 13secV6 catback
- Run 1: 182.80HP/204.60TQ, 72.92* F, 29.27 in-Hg, 30% Humidity
- Run 2: 182.55HP/205.65TQ, 72.89* F, 29.28 in-Hg, 28% Humidity
- Run 3: 182.68HP/204.25TQ, 74.36* F, 29.29 in-Hg, 27% Humidity

Dyno and Installation Information:
Day 1: I arrived at 1400, we let the car cool and then went to the dyno. Upon completion of the test we cooled the car. Disassembly of the stock exhaust system and all components began at 1930 and disassembly was completed at 2125. Long tube installation began at this time and the revised driver's side long tube was mounted.

Both Camaros were identical in regards to clearance with both sets of LTs. The header Dan originally received had approximately ¼"- 3/8" of clearance when mounted on my Camaro. Likewise, the revised header strikes my undercarriage just as it does on Dan's. Once the LTs and y-pipe were fitted, we started work on the 13secv6 catback. This catback consists of:

- Summit Turbo muffler SUM-630230 3" offset in/out
- Dynomax Intermediate pipe 3", WLK-53061 and WLK 54064.

Due to the extreme fitment issue we encountered with the revised driver's side LT header, we used Dan's original driver's side LT for the purpose of testing on the dyno. Work was completed at 0200.

Day 2: We finished up some small issues first thing in the morning and headed to the dyno. The best pull with the LTs was 184HP/203TQ. We cooled the car for a short period of time and began installation of the Pacesetters. The Pacesetters produced 182HP/205TQ.

Personal observations:
I do believe the LT's are a great product. Aside from some necessary fixes, they work great. Even with the false KR hobbling the performance they still produced a better peak HP # than the Pacesetters. Once the clearance issue is fixed, these things will outshine the competition.

Once you look at the graph and see where the LT's take off, it becomes apparent that the longtubes are way too much header for a stock vehicle. They flow like no other, which shifted the curve up higher into the RPMs. In my opinion, this hurt the peak TQ value. The scavenging really comes into play around 5100rpm and the peak HP comes in about 5300rpm. The Pacesetters peaked at approximately 5100rpm and quickly dropped off afterwards, unlike the LTs which continued a nice, steady curve.

Do I believe that you need tuning to make the most of these headers? No. I do believe that these headers will be most appreciated by those that do more than the basic bolt-ons, and as such these individuals will most likely have a tuner available. As such I recommend the LTs to those that are going to need the overhead. I will say that the bolt-on folks won't be disappointed with the performance, and they do sound dead sexy.


If people take anything away from this test, I want them to know that the LTs have great potential. Did we see it all on my car? No, thanks to a restrictive intake side and the false KR. The clearance issue is being worked as we speak by Tiago and Pat, and once that's cleared up and we regain the 8* of timing pulled by false KR, the results are going to be BANANAS. One last answer to the question I'm sure is on everyone's mind:

Dyno charts:
Stock


Longtubes


Pacesetters



Longtubes vs Pacesetters



Comparison of all 3
 

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Call me... MR. SnIpEz
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I'm waiting for Zex to come in here and dispute this. We had a discussion on this the other night.
 

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Call me... MR. SnIpEz
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I still don't believe LT add 60 hp to the v6.:nonono:

EDIT: I was under false preconceptions at that time
 

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They offer gains of 60 HP though, which is insane!!! T.
I still don't believe LT add 60 hp to the v6.:nonono:
:p fool, you're the one that said it. still, according to the charts, it looks like about 40-50, which is insane just for LTs.
 

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Call me... MR. SnIpEz
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Well, according to Abbot Racing, the people who make the famous Abbott racing heads:

http://www.abbottracingheads.com/gm3800.htm

On a daily driven 1998 Pontiac Firebird, our ported 3.8L heads, ported intake, a custom grind Comp cam (210/220, .512/.512, 112LSA), and some custom long tube headers made 271 rear wheel horsepower and 259 rear wheel torque on a stock short block.
same exact car I currently own. I HIGHLY doubt those other mods aside from the LT's only added 11 hp, but hey, what do I know? xD
 

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Call me... MR. SnIpEz
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yeah this is a double post, and to add to my statement further:





I see in order a: 14 hp increase, 17 hp increase, and another 17 hp increase
 
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